"High performance leadership without burnout. Alexandra Popkova on stress, focus & saying No"
| Total Sales Innovation Academy

Bob: Welcome to another episode of the TSI Academy Podcast. Today I have a very special guest, Alexandra Popkova. What I didn’t know at the time is that we started exactly at the same time as coaches on TaskHuman, the platform that unfortunately doesn’t exist anymore. We both spent four years coaching thousands of professionals. Alexandra did that more on the leadership side, and I was doing that more on the selling side. Alexandra, you are an executive coach and leadership and transformation consultant with 15+ years of international experience across Talent, Organizational Development, Leadership Development, and Executive Coaching. You have supported clients across 35+ countries and work with leaders navigating complexity, change, uncertainty, and cross-cultural environments. You are also a PCC-certified coach, and currently you’re working in executive coaching and leadership development through John Mattone Global and Coaching Up University. Alexandra, welcome to my podcast.

Alexandra: Thank you so much for having me, Bob.

Bob: Did you know that we started at exactly the same time at TaskHuman?

Alexandra: No, no. It came up in our last conversation, but it’s always great to share this experience with somebody who went through the same thing.

Bob: It did. The reason we got together is through multiple angles. We are together in a coaching community called The Coach Collective, where we have an incredible community of coaches. We’ve also spent quite some time in sessions and meetings together. It turned out that we have at least one overlapping passion, or maybe even a concern. From your perspective, it’s more leadership. From mine, it’s more sales performance. But where we overlap is the topic of stress. High performance and stress is something we talked about and something we want to talk about today. I have my questions about what you see from a leadership point of view, but more importantly, what leaders can do to achieve high performance, which we all want, while at the same time reducing stress and avoiding burnout. So let’s see where we get in this conversation.

Alexandra: Let’s start.

Bob: From everything you’ve seen across countries, cultures, and leadership contexts, what do ambitious founders get most wrong about stress and performance?

Alexandra: Oh, wow. No pressure. I think the first thing that comes to mind is the idea that many founders have of trying to do everything at the same time and not really having clear priorities. Everything depends on the founder. You need to build a team, find investors, take care of sales, talk to clients, and ensure that all the systems, processes, and frameworks are working fine. But many times, what I notice is that they themselves don’t really have a clear network of support that they can rely on to get some clarity, hear themselves out loud, get different perspectives, and not feel like they are doing it all by themselves. That idea of “me, myself, and I” being fully responsible for the business, the teams, the end results, and the revenue is obviously partly a fact. But the question is: how could you find the support that you need? How could you find a community that you could rely on? How could you find coaches and mentors who could help you really clarify what the one focus should be for next week or next month? Everything else is nice to have.

Bob: This is absolutely great. I recognize this completely, both for myself as an entrepreneur, and of course with the CEOs and entrepreneurs I work with. It’s that point of what can I let go of, what can I delegate, and what should I be doing myself? That one priority is what I call the Pareto in time management, which applies to everything: what is the 20% of my activities that will produce 80% of the outcomes? Are those the conversations that you’re having with leaders?

Alexandra: Absolutely. Something I always ask my clients is: if you were to choose just one focus for your attention for the next activity, like a team meeting or a conversation with a client, what would it be? Many times, we assume that the goal, intention, or end result is clear for us. But when you ask somebody to really formulate it in one single sentence, it’s harder than you think. You’re having a team meeting and the usual response is, “I want them to know,” “I want us to be on the same page,” or “I want to align.” But if you want them to know, send an email. If that’s your intention, why would you take everybody’s time and have a meeting about it? The intention should be to build a relationship, build partnership, or something else that is really worth sitting down and having that conversation for. Once you have that clarity in your mind, it really helps reduce the stress and anxiety of all the competing priorities and everything else that might be happening in your life and business right now. You can just focus on one thing at a time.

Bob: Brilliant. You mentioned a lot of interesting things that spark questions for me, especially coming from my corporate world before I became a coach. I spent 25 years in tech selling, including in very large companies like Microsoft, and topics like meetings, competing priorities, and matrixes were the default in those enterprises. When I was a sales manager at Microsoft, I used to have my calendar color-coded. Internal meetings were red, client or customer meetings were green, and partnerships were orange. I could open my calendar without reading anything and already know: way too many internal meetings, I’m going to cancel internal meetings. But it took me about three years of stress and burnout to get to the point where I had the clarity and courage to set those boundaries. Is that something you recognize with your clients?

Alexandra: Absolutely. You cannot believe the number of really senior leaders I’ve worked with who tell me, “I spend every single day just in meetings.” So what they do is wake up at 5 or 6 a.m. and work before going to the office. Then they go to the office, have meetings, and after office hours go back home and actually focus on what they have to do at work. It sounds ridiculous, but I think it’s a huge part of what’s really happening out there for leaders. That mentality is something we collectively have to change. There are too many meetings. Let’s prioritize. Let’s really understand why we do what we do, what the end goal is, and how we can support each other.

Bob: It’s a fascinating paradigm, but also a mindset. I feel those leaders because I’ve been there. It’s not having the confidence yet to delegate things. You don’t want to miss anything. The FOMO. You think you need to be in all those meetings. You think all those meetings are necessary in order to get things done. Then in order to really get things done, you have to start at 5 a.m. or work until 11 p.m. It’s a mindset. In your experience, is this really contributing to high performance?

Alexandra: No. But I would like to mention something here. I don’t think it’s about time management. I think it’s about focus management. If the internet goes off at your home, calling the internet provider or figuring it out was not in your original agenda for the week, but I assume it would become your number one priority. You would postpone everything else in your calendar and fix it. So it’s not really about how much time we have and how we allocate our time. It’s about how we prioritize and how we manage our attention based on our values, priorities, and the expected end result.

Bob: That’s brilliant. As you describe it, I’m seeing the Eisenhower matrix: is this urgent, is this important, is it both? What you and I see a lot with leaders is that they are being driven by urgency, not taking a pause to ask: is this really important? Is that what you’re seeing?

Alexandra: Yes. It’s really a huge pain.

Bob: What are the early warning signs that a founder or leadership team is performing from the outside but becoming unhealthy on the inside? The numbers show high performance, but you’re seeing unhealthy or maybe even toxic behavior before it leads to sickness or burnout. What are the early warning signs?

Alexandra: I have so many ideas. Give me a second. I don’t know where to start. Competing priorities all the time and the constant sense of urgency. Of course, we all know there are certain periods during the year, depending on your business, when it’s “all hands on deck.” We’ll figure it out later, we’ll take vacations later, but this week or this month we just need to make it happen because long-term it’s going to drive our business. Everybody does it. But when it becomes the norm and it happens all the time, every single month, with every new project, that’s a red flag.

Bob: So the peak times become the norm. Whether it’s mid-quarter or the beginning of the quarter because now we have to do budgeting and planning, or then we have recovery midterm, another peak time. Now the peak times become the norm. Is that what you’re saying?

Alexandra: Exactly. And something I also notice from my work with leaders is that many managers see that performance from their team and think, “Wow, this is possible. This is great. We could do so much more. I’m going to assign a new task, a new project, because now I know they can perform at that level.” Yes, for a week. But the desire many leaders immediately have is to make it the new norm.

Bob: “This is great numbers. I loved how we closed last month. Let’s make it happen again and again and again.” It works for some time and everybody’s super excited. Especially in sales, because you get rewarded for your effort. It makes sense. That’s what makes sales different compared to other departments, because this trend happens everywhere, but other positions that are not in sales don’t necessarily get direct compensation for going the extra mile. So it just becomes your new norm, and then you ask for vacation and it almost feels like you need to be ashamed or guilty that the rest of the team is there in the office working and you’re going to have two weeks off.

Alexandra: I also want to mention that this is a trend, obviously, but I think it largely depends on your cultural background and cultural norm. The situation you’re describing, I see it a lot in the US. But if you talk about Europe, of course we’re generalizing, nobody would work during their time off. It’s time off. I go to the beach. I focus on myself. That’s it. I disconnect from work. That’s how it’s supposed to be, because you’re not paid to work during that time. You’re paid to rest. Since I work with so many leaders from different places, more than 35 countries, I see the trends in mindset and cultural assumptions of, “This is what’s expected of me. I cannot afford to completely disconnect. I still need to be connected.” There are several reasons for it. One is cultural and social norm. Another is probably the pressure of the current job market. If it’s not me, there are 15 more people in line waiting to replace me, probably for less money. There is high competition and the fear of losing stability, because these days stability is a huge value. Also, if you are career-driven, which again many people in the US are, there is that fear of, “I need to show up. If it’s not me, there is nobody in the company who can solve this. I’m looking for my next promotion in a couple of months, so I really need to be there. I need to perform. I need to show up for my manager and make sure I get visibility and recognition.” But the funny part, and the irony, is that this is not really how it works.

Bob: How does it really work?

Alexandra: You don’t get rewarded for working during your time off. You get rewarded for other things, and you get promoted for other things.

Bob: Give me an example. What are the other things that you get promoted for?

Alexandra: Your ability to prioritize, delegate, be strategic, and make sure that when you’re not there, there is somebody in your team you’ve already invested time to train and mentor so they can take care of the business. I always ask this question to clients in leadership roles: if something happens tomorrow, or you just want to take time off, and you say, “Guys, tomorrow I’m disconnecting for the next two weeks, good luck,” how likely is everything going to run smoothly? How many leaders would think their team would actually perform better when they’re not there, or worse? That should be your north star as a leader because you’re not an individual contributor. You have the responsibility to build the process and the team so it’s sustainable. If you or somebody else from your team is not there, there should be a system that you create as a leader that is self-sufficient and sustainable. No matter what happens with people, processes, the business, or the client, people know what to do and how to move forward.

Bob: When I listen to you, what I’m thinking about is Stephen Covey, The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, and the distinction between leadership and management. Would you agree that the leaders who believe they cannot step away because their team will lower performance are managing, with the expectation that they can manage people? Stephen Covey taught us that you cannot manage people. You can manage inventory, cash, and processes, but you cannot manage people. You have to lead people. The second example you described, leaders who can say, “I’m off, I’m hiking in the mountains for two weeks, no phone, there’s not even signal, go do,” that’s leadership. Am I right?

Alexandra: Yes, absolutely. I agree with that.

Bob: So how do you build that? If you’re working with a leader who believes that if they even go out for lunch, the company is lost, and they need to keep their phone up and running, check all their messages because the company is on hold. If you tell that type of manager to go away for two months, go into the mountains, that person will completely panic. Where do you start with a leader like that, a complete micromanager? What is the first step this person needs to take to let go and build trust and confidence with the team and with themselves?

Alexandra: The first step is always awareness. Any transformation starts with awareness. Let’s acknowledge that this is exactly what’s happening. Once we do that, the next question is why. What’s the motivation, or probably the fear, behind that idea of control, that need for control and micromanagement, and making sure that I know exactly what’s happening with every single member of my team, responding to all the emails within five minutes? What am I actually trying to accomplish here? Then we work with that idea and shift the perspective to, “Is this really the best way to get what you want?” Or could we take a step back and try to delegate, enable your people, empower them, and make sure they are self-sufficient while you are there to guide them, provide direction, and provide the support needed for them to perform and hit their KPIs by the end of the month?

Bob: Let’s take this into a real conversation with a leader who says, “Alexandra, this sounds great. I would love to go on holiday, but if I do, my team just stops working. Performance goes down. We’re going to miss our targets, and I’m going to be fired. That’s it. Me taking holiday means me being fired. Can’t do that.” Where do you start?

Alexandra: I would ask, “How come that when you’re not there, performance immediately, magically drops down?”

Bob: And the leader might say, “Because they don’t take responsibility. They don’t take ownership. They wait for me to give them instructions. If I don’t tell them what to do, they don’t know what to do.”

Alexandra: I think that’s a learned dynamic. It’s always easier to work with a new leader than to change dynamics already existing in a team with someone more tenured in the position, with a team they started with three years ago. It’s already a habit. Exactly what you just mentioned: my team already expects me to come and tell them what to do. So if tomorrow you go to the mountains, obviously they’re going to expect you to come back. Why would they do anything different? It would be ridiculous from our side to expect a different result. In this situation, the focus would be to intentionally, step by step, create a new dynamic and a new reality for the leader and the team, where the roles shift and it becomes more of a partnership rather than being a teacher in kindergarten telling five-year-olds what games to play. If the people are in your team and you haven’t fired them, there should be a reason for it. Let’s see the profile of each team member. What are their strengths? Why are they in your team? What are the things you could take advantage of from their background, expertise, and skill set? How could you use it? How could you see it as a leader? How could you see it as a system? How could you connect the dots and make sure people work together and support each other to create that puzzle, while you are there to oversee the process and give the right direction from time to time?

Bob: So clarity and direction. Now let me assume another leadership persona that I think you recognize. They acknowledge there must be a change, either internally or driven by HR or leadership because of sick leave and burnout. HR comes up with work-life balance programs and those kinds of things. The leader acknowledges, “Okay, we need to change things. We need a better work-life balance.” But then the leader continues to work 60 or 70 hours a week, is in the office first and leaves last, and responds to emails, WhatsApp, and Slack on weekends and holidays. What do you do with that leader?

Alexandra: Again, there is some type of belief behind why they need to behave like that. What’s the value of that? There is a fear behind it. “If I stop working on the weekend, I’m going to lose control,” or “I’m not going to have enough time to hit my targets by the end of the month,” or “I’m not going to perform the way I used to.” What’s the fear behind that behavior? Then we work with that. A question I absolutely love is: is it your assumption or is it the reality? What’s the truth? Is it the idea you have in your head? Let’s try to ground it in facts. Does it make sense? Many times, it doesn’t. But with this type of belief, you need to work step by step because you cannot expect a drastic change. Imagine I’ve been working like this for the last 20 years of my life, and it has worked fine for me so far because I am where I am. That was a strategy for success that worked for me, and now I have a coach or HR reaching out and telling me to stop and change it. Why would I? We need to create a new motivation, a new intention that is stronger than the previous habit and the fear. That would be the goal of coaching or any type of developmental support.

Bob: So now we have clarity, direction, boundaries, and letting go, starting the transformation from a leadership point of view, including role modeling. The performance leaders demonstrate is also part of role modeling and cultural change. Let’s go to the next stage. The leadership is driving change and showing, “I’m really off. You cannot call me right now. I’m going to the beach.” Now let’s talk about the culture of ongoing meetings and long working hours. There’s still the mindset of, “I have back-to-back meetings all day. I cannot take breaks.” Especially in America, lunch is like, “What do you mean lunch?” Same in Holland, by the way. Lunch is 15 minutes, have a sandwich while you’re working. It’s ridiculous.

Alexandra: On your desk.

Bob: Exactly. We’ll get back to cultural differences because we still have a lot to talk about there. But let’s go to the area where the team also believes, “I need to keep going. I need to keep working. I don’t have time for breaks.” How do you see that in terms of the combination of performance and health?

Alexandra: Could you reformulate the question, please?

Bob: Specifically on the matter of breaks. The example I want to give is from Brendon Burchard’s High Performance Habits. He says the best-performing leaders on average take a break about every 50 minutes. They schedule time blocks of 50 minutes and then take a 10-minute break. When I work with leaders, their first reaction is, “What do you mean, 10-minute break every hour? Do you know how much lost productivity that is?” I’m trying to educate them that if they actually take those 10-minute breaks every hour, their overall performance might be higher than if they just continue working. How do you see that?

Alexandra: I think what many leaders forget is that as leaders, we perform and work from our state. You cannot be a resource to others if you are not a resource to yourself. It’s the classic airplane example: the first instruction is to put the oxygen mask on yourself first and then attend to your kids. It’s the same logic. You are not resourceful if you are in meetings all day back to back and you cannot even afford to go to the bathroom or have lunch. That’s a red flag. You can be in those meetings, showing up, talking about KPIs, performance, deals, and money, and everything may look great. But then when you disconnect from your last call at the end of the day, you get this wave of exhaustion, anxiety, and stress overwhelming you because it’s the first time since morning that you actually connect to how you feel. I’m sure you’ve been in those situations when you disconnect from your last call and think, “Oh my God, I’m so hungry. Oh my God, I’m so tired.” Five minutes before, you were performing and having a discussion with a potential client, and everything was great. Then you have a few seconds to connect to yourself and realize, “Oh yes, I’m not at my best.” Many times, we don’t necessarily have an opportunity to change it, or we choose not to change it. But what’s important is the awareness. The awareness that I’m hungry, I’m tired, I didn’t sleep well, or I’m stressed about the call coming up in the afternoon. Do I want to change it? Yes or no. Can I change it? Yes or no. If the answer is no and no, that’s okay. But at least I know that’s part of my reality, and it’s affecting me, how I show up, and the conversations I’m having. Just the fact that I’m aware of it is already a big deal.

Bob: Absolutely. Coming back to awareness, where it all started.

Alexandra: Exactly.

Bob: Let’s take awareness broader, literally broader. Let’s take it international. You work with leaders from 35 countries, so you’ve seen cultures around the planet. We already mentioned North America versus Europe, which is a great distinction. Looking from America to Europe, they say Europeans are on holiday all the time, they have 365 holidays, they work one hour a day, they have four-hour lunches, and they never work. Supposedly. Now I’m in Europe looking at the Americans, thinking they don’t have a life. They only work. They don’t stop working. They don’t see their family, don’t see their children, don’t take care of themselves. But their productivity is actually lower. What do you see? What’s the truth between them?

Alexandra: I mean, there is no truth. Again, going back to our conversation, how could you manage your internal state? If you drive a car, from time to time you have to go to a gas station and put gas in your car. No matter how much time you have, whether it was in your agenda or not, if there is a line at the gas station, you still have to do it. Otherwise, the car will stop and won’t perform. It’s easy and obvious for everybody. But when we talk about our bodies and internal states, we don’t think about them like that. So my question is: why? There are many frameworks around checking when during the day you have peak performance, when you have more energy, and trying to align your schedule based on your own internal rhythm or energy levels. There is also a whole conversation about schedules for women and how the 8-to-5 schedule doesn’t really work for us for obvious reasons. There are many ways to see that. But ultimately, the question you can ask yourself every day after every single meeting, just before you connect to the next meeting you’re already late to, is to take literally two seconds. Nobody is going to die. Nobody is going to miss you. Take a deep breath and do a pulse check with yourself. How do I feel? That’s all it takes. You don’t need to say, “I’m tired, so I’m canceling all my meetings for the rest of the day and going to the park.” No, you’re not going to do that. But that awareness is what we’re looking for.

Bob: I love that. Something I hear a lot when we talk about well-being or stress management is the perception of, “I don’t have time for a 90-minute yoga session. I’m an entrepreneur.” I would agree that as a seller, thinking about a 90-minute yoga session during the day, I would run away instantly. But what I’ve also learned is, as you said, those micro moments and micro breaks, even three minutes between meetings, a transition, a breathing exercise, box breathing, 4-7-8 breathing, or intention setting, can make such an incredible difference. Are those conversations you’re also having with leaders?

Alexandra: Yes. When you gave the example of the 90-minute yoga session, what came up for me is that we see it as a waste of time. That’s why the answer is, “I don’t have time for that. I have time for client meetings and strategy sessions, but I don’t have time for yoga.” But what if we shift our perspective and see it as a necessary tool that you use to manage your business? I want to go back to the conversation we had about culture, cultural differences, how business is made, and how this shows up in the work environment. I’m originally from Russia, and when I moved to Latin America, it was a drastic change in terms of culture, communication, social expectations, and what is generally considered the norm. I had to learn it the hard way. I spent years being in this drama state because the way I was expected to show up with people and in conversations felt like I was betraying myself and my values. It felt wrong. It didn’t feel authentic. It felt fake, like I was trying to be somebody I’m not. But the major shift that really changed the game for me was when I started to see it as a strategy. With my Russian original settings, if I’m a manager and I need to close a deal or remind my team about a deadline tomorrow, I would send an email or a chat: “Hey guys, kind reminder, tomorrow is the deadline. Let’s make it happen.” In Latin America, that’s not how it works because relationships play a key role. Instead of sending a follow-up email, I invite my stakeholder to get coffee and we talk about life, the weekend, how their grandma is doing, their family, the concert next Monday, whatever. We don’t talk about work, and I take more time to get to the same result than I originally thought I should need. But actually, it’s a strategy. By connecting with them and having that conversation, it’s more likely they will help me because the idea is not only that I’m doing the job I’m paid for. It’s, “I’m going to decide to help you if I like you.” That’s a very different mindset. I had to learn it the hard way. Now I shift the way I do business with local clients and everything runs more smoothly. I don’t feel fake. I see it as a business strategy that I choose to get the result I want, and this strategy works. Instead of me sending a thousand follow-up emails, getting frustrated, and nothing gets done anyway.

Bob: Brilliant. Frustration on both sides: the leadership side and the team side.

Alexandra: Exactly. So going back to your question about the yoga session, see it as a necessary time investment, business tool, and strategy. The same way you treat your team meeting every Monday, it’s part of your business. It’s necessary time you take to be more resourceful, manage your stress, get more clarity, and create more space to actually think about your business and make clearer decisions.

Bob: Brilliant. It’s the fuel break your car needs. If I take it one step further, I love Formula One, which is the highest level in motorsports. The real strategy is in those pit stops. Should we take one more lap? Are the tires heated? Do we need more fuel? It’s holistic thinking about the best strategy: one pit stop or two. That’s exactly how it should work with leaders too. Should I work for another 30 minutes, or should I take a walk now and then get another three hours of performance work? As a final question, Alexandra, because time is really flying. From that cultural point of view, you’ve seen all sides of the spectrum, between Russia and Latin America and everything in between and around the planet. If I asked you to configure the ideal leader and think about all the great habits, practices, and routines you’ve seen across leaders who are consistently high-performing but also have a great life and time for friends, what is one habit you would recommend people explore and start with today?

Alexandra: Say no. Say no. Because when you say no to something, you’re saying yes to something else. I think that goes back to our conversation about prioritizing, focus management, and awareness. What’s the most important thing right now? I cannot do everything. That’s a fact. Let’s accept it. Let’s breathe through it. It’s just our life. So the next step is asking again: what’s the most important thing? I’m going to say no to clients if they are not my clients, if I already feel it’s going to be more of a headache. And how do you make that decision to say yes or no? Based on your intention. That big picture you have in your head, that clarity you have. I work here, I’m an owner, a founder, a salesperson, whatever my role is. Why do I do what I do? Probably that answer is not going to be about work. Most likely, it’s going to be about lifestyle and how you want to feel. You want to feel empowered, secure, financially stable, happy, joyful. You want to enjoy what you do. You want to enjoy your interactions. You want to enjoy your family and loved ones. However you formulate that for yourself, it should be really clear because that’s the criterion you’re going to use to make tough choices.

Bob: Brilliant. Saying no means knowing exactly what to say yes to, and it comes down to the clarity we talked about. One of the tools that really helps there is Pareto. If you accept the fact that only 20% of everything you do produces 80% of your desired outcomes, then you need to figure out what that 20% is. What are the things I need to say yes to? One tool I love is creating your not-to-do list.

Alexandra: I really love that.

Bob: Literally write it down. What’s the list of things I’m going to stop doing, and check in on that list? Alexandra, thank you so much. This has been an amazing conversation. I hope leaders will get inspiration from knowing that clarity is the starting point for everything. Every transformation starts with clarity. Hopefully they’ll think about what they need to stop doing, what they need to say no to, what clarity they need, what their intention is, and what their purpose is. As Simon Sinek said, it starts with why. Alexandra, if leaders out there want to learn more about you, where can they find you?

Alexandra: First of all, my website, alexandrapopkova.com, or LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexandrapopkova/

Bob: Brilliant. Alexandra, thank you so much for this conversation. I learned a lot.

Alexandra: Thank you for having me. I hope we’ve both given some inspiration to the leaders out there. Thank you so much.