"How to adapt without losing yourself: You have to learn new rules"
| Transplants Podcast - Conversations with women thriving abroad

00:00:00

Alexandra: How do I show up so that I’m not perceived as loud, too much, drama queen, etc.? I never heard this phrase from a male client.

Alexandra: Many people, when they move abroad, they really don’t have that clarity of what it takes to do that.

Alexandra: You could always move back or move somewhere else. You could make the decisions once you have the information, but you cannot predict the future from where you are right now.

Laura: Welcome to Transplants, a podcast featuring conversations with women thriving in new roots abroad. I’m your host, Laura Peruchi, a Brazilian journalist calling NYC home for over a decade.

00:00:40

Laura: Each episode, we unpack the transitions, culture shocks, setbacks, and joys of starting a new life in another country so you can learn from their insights and make your own bold move. Because I truly believe real stories are the strongest way to spark real growth.

What happens when the qualities that make you you suddenly don’t work in another culture? My guest today, Alexandra Popkova, is originally from Russia, and she has lived in India, Bahrain, Nicaragua, and now Colombia. And her journey is a fascinating example of how living abroad can force us to question behaviors we once thought were simply, quote unquote, normal.

We talked about cultural misunderstandings, learning to play by a different set of rules without feeling like you’re betraying yourself, building an intercultural relationship, and the invisible mental load of starting over in a new country. Alexandra is also a coach, and I’ve loved how she describes successful adaptation: not by replacing who you are, but expanding your range. How inspiring is that?

So, let’s hear Alexandra’s transplant story.

00:02:07

Laura: Hi, Alexandra. Thank you so much for being here, and welcome to the show.

Alexandra: Thank you so much for having me, Laura.

Laura: How are you feeling today?

Alexandra: Excited about our conversation.

Laura: Me too. I guess you have a lot of stories to share, and I want to start by asking you something that usually I don’t start like this, but sometimes I like to twist the conversations a little bit.

Alexandra: Okay.

00:02:38

Laura: So, like, we all know that generalization can flatten people, especially when they are negative. And I was wondering, after living in several cultures, what assumptions about Russians have followed you abroad, and what do people tend to get wrong? Because I’m familiar with that too. People have a lot of assumptions about Brazilians, and I’m just wondering if you hear a lot of jokes about vodka.

00:03:12

Alexandra: Yes. Every single time. But of course, this is something very superficial. I think one of the major stereotypes, especially living in Latin America, because the difference is obvious and is drastic, Russians are usually perceived as somebody who is very cold and very distant. Like, you would never smile. Yes. No. Bye-bye, you know?

And it’s very different from how, in Latin America, people are used to relating to one another. I love having these conversations with locals because I feel like it’s not that we are distant and Latinos are warmer and more joyful. It’s not that. I feel like the deep motivation is the same, but the way we show up, the behavior that’s observable, is the opposite.

Laura: Can you give me an example?

Alexandra: Sure. Like small talk. You know, how would you show your respect to somebody? So in Russia, generally, if I give you a call, I will just directly ask you, “Do you have a second? This is exactly the topic that I want to discuss with you. This is the question,” because I respect your time.

I don’t know if you’re busy. If I’m giving you a call, it’s something urgent for me. So I want to be mindful of that. I would just go directly to the point, and I would be thankful and grateful that you took time to answer.

In Latin America, the way you show respect is the opposite behavior. Say, “Hi, Laura. How are you? How was your weekend trip? Did you enjoy it? I’m so happy for you. Oh, wow. Okay. So, what are your plans for next week?”

And then, after 15 minutes of this conversation about the weather and nothing, I would go like, “Oh, by the way, you know, the reason why I’m calling you is because I wanted to ask you this question.”

The behavior is the opposite, but the motivation is the same. I want to be polite. I want to be respectful. So if you don’t know the context and you’re only judging from your own cultural lens, it’s very easy to come up with your own conclusions that might have nothing to do with reality. You know what I mean?

00:05:19

Laura: I love that. I love that example particularly because, yeah, now living abroad for over 10 years, I’m more like the first approach rather than the second approach. And I’m Brazilian, and I know exactly what you’re talking about, like the small talk and sharing everything, oversharing, is very common.

But today I’m more like, okay, please respect my time, cut off the BS. You know what I mean? And I love that it’s about perspective. And I guess that’s what I love about living abroad and having access to different cultures and just realizing, hey, the way that I see things and the way that I behave, it’s one way, but it’s not the only one. There are other ways that people live.

Alexandra: Yeah.

Laura: And I guess, especially as a coach, you probably have a lot of stories. But let’s talk about you right now. Before talking about all the experiences that you have, I want you to take us back to your childhood, and let me see if I’m going to pronounce this correctly: Vladivostok.

Alexandra: Yes.

Laura: Okay. So, what was life like there? It was like not a super small town, right?

Alexandra: It’s a city.

Laura: It’s a city. Yeah. You told me.

Alexandra: Yeah. It’s a major port in the Far East of Russia.

Laura: Yeah, I remember that from our previous conversation. So, how was life back there, and what were your strong beliefs on how life was supposed to be? When you’re growing up there, what are your dreams? Have you ever thought that you would be living in another country when you were a little girl?

00:07:02

Alexandra: If I talk about my childhood, I don’t think living abroad was, like, a dream. I don’t think I was thinking about that at all.

Laura: Uh-huh.

Alexandra: But I always like to joke about that with my husband, that every time I used to play Barbie, I would come up with foreign names for my Ken. Every single time. So maybe back then I already knew.

Laura: I don’t remember how I was naming my Barbies and my Kens. I only had one Barbie and one Ken, but now, oh my God, I’m so curious now to remember that.

Alexandra: Yeah, it’s an interesting memory. But in terms of my childhood in Vladivostok, something that you need to understand is that Russia is so big. It’s just—

Laura: It’s huge, and it’s so diverse.

Alexandra: So obviously, when I was growing up, it was normal for me because you don’t know anything else, right? And I was traveling a lot abroad with my parents. So it was something normal. I would see different cultures and countries.

So I think I had that advantage in my life from a very early age, that understanding that life could be different. You know, it’s not just your little box of what you know, your reality, your friends and family.

But something that I really felt deeply was when I moved to St. Petersburg. So, for you to understand the difference, there is, I think, seven hours’ time difference between my hometown—

Laura: Yes.

Alexandra: —between my hometown and St. Petersburg because it’s the opposite side of the country.

Laura: Uh-huh.

Alexandra: It’s around 9–11 hours by plane to travel. So it’s still within the same country. My experience was so different.

When I was growing up, because Vladivostok is so close to China and just in front of Japan, and it’s a major port, everything, all your life, is around Asia: food, culture, intercultural marriages as well. I remember lots of kids from my kindergarten with Russian moms and Chinese, Japanese, Thai fathers. So it was normal.

And I remember the coolest thing of my childhood, the coolest thing that you could ever dream about, was to go to a Chinese market with your grandma.

Laura: That was like the weekend’s activity.

Alexandra: Okay, it was like Disneyland.

And obviously, it impacts every single aspect of your life. So, for example, in school you would learn Russian and English as the first foreign language. That’s a given. But then in middle school, you had a choice for a second foreign language, and your choice was Chinese or Thai.

Laura: Oh, wow.

Alexandra: Because it makes sense. But then, when I was 11, I moved to St. Petersburg, and then in my school the choice was French or German.

Laura: Makes sense.

Alexandra: But that was never an option for me.

So even things like that, like how—I don’t want to say how people dress up—but you just notice these cultural differences in little details. And I think, me being a kid, it was easier for me to adapt in that sense.

But I remember lots of conversations that my parents used to have in the kitchen after work, of different comments that their colleagues would make about them, or the difference of who shops where, what they wear for work, and what’s the style, what’s fashionable, and just, you know, things like that. And it’s still within the same country.

So I think that experience of not spending my whole life in one home was also instrumental for me later in my life. You know, to—I don’t want to say easily move around—it was kind of the norm already. It was not something so brand new.

00:11:14

Laura: Mm-hmm. It makes sense. Yes. I was just talking to another guest today, and her experience growing up was in the suburbs in the United States, and we were talking about how that can influence the choices that you think that you have, right?

So it’s totally different from you because you were surrounded by the Japanese, Chinese, and then you had this experience of moving in the same country. And I can tell that can happen in Brazil as well. I’m from the south. Brazil is huge. Not as huge as Russia, but it’s huge. And I know that a lot of people that move from the northeast to São Paulo, they face a lot of problems. They have to overcome a lot of things because even in the same country, there are so many differences and also prejudice.

Anyway, so I want to understand: you studied Art History.

Alexandra: Yes.

Laura: So how did you choose that path, and when did you realize that that was not what you wanted? Because we know that you are working as a coach.

00:12:26

Alexandra: Originally, when I was applying to university, I got a scholarship. I really liked that profession. That was something interesting. I wanted to explore, and I was really happy there.

My turning point in my studies happened after the second year.

Laura: Okay.

Alexandra: So my friends and I, we went to Istanbul for time off, for vacations, and obviously we went to Hagia Sophia in Istanbul. So, for you to understand, in my Art History course, the whole second year, in different subjects, we would talk about Hagia Sophia. It was like the theme of the year: architecture, art, religion, culture, so many things. So I had to take exams and talk about it.

For me, that was such a milestone. It’s like, “Oh my God, I’m traveling to—this is the best thing that could ever happen to me.” I was so excited. I was so looking forward to that day.

And I went there, and I remember that feeling of absolute emptiness and frustration.

Laura: Oh.

Alexandra: And I’ll be honest with you, I felt so useless because a piece of art that I used to study for hours during the whole year, and I was so excited to experience it, and being there in that place, in that location, I’m there and I have no idea what’s in front of me.

I was not able to navigate it. I was not able to actually understand where I need to look for things that I wanted to see. I felt so lost. The ideas that I had in my mind versus the reality. And I just felt like everything that I studied was great theory, but I couldn’t apply it in real life.

And I understand that’s my personal experience, but for me that was a turning point when I felt really discouraged.

Laura: Well, good thing it was in the second year, right?

Alexandra: Oh, yeah. For sure.

And, you know, as in any profession, in any university course, there are subjects and professors that you really enjoy, even if you don’t see yourself doing that thing in the future. You just enjoy their lectures, the classes, and there were a couple of them like that.

But then another half were like, I didn’t see the value in that. I’m very curious. I would ask you questions until I understand it or until I accept that I give up because there is no point.

And I remember myself being in that situation and raising my hand and asking, “Hey, so how come we study this drawing, this painting, instead of something else? Why do we collectively as humanity say that this is a piece of art compared to the thousands of others that were produced in the same time period?”

You know, like, I’m very logical. Help me make sense of it. And the answers that I would get were so vague.

Laura: Mm-hmm.

Alexandra: It didn’t make sense to me. And that was not helping my motivation and excitement at all.

So, at the end of the day, I graduated, I got the diploma, but I really never pictured myself doing that, working in that field. And maybe also, you know, if I knew the opportunities that would be there in the future—you know, right now, you could come up with your own club or lectures and combine different activities—maybe if that was visible back then, I would be more interested. But obviously, you cannot predict the future.

So another important part of my experience was that it was too much fluff for my character, you know, and I really needed something more concrete.

And I was super happy because while I was studying at university, at the same time I was working for an international NGO. So there I was getting all that communications, sales, marketing, partnerships, events, all that experience that I couldn’t really get only from my studies, but they were really deep inside me in terms of needs and my values and my interests and skills.

So this is how I started working for an international NGO, first in Russia, then I moved with them to India and also to Nicaragua.

00:17:30

Laura: Okay.

Alexandra: So, yes.

Laura: Do you think that there is any skill that you learned while studying Art History that you use today?

Alexandra: That’s a great question. I don’t know if it’s—yeah, maybe it’s a skill, but I feel like no matter where I am, I’m still very interested in a cultural aspect of history, going to museums and churches, exploring the local stories and mentality, and how society is functioning and why, you know, and the reasons for it.

So when I explore new things, there is a certain framework in my mind that I feel other people might not have, that’s easier for me to see these connections. Oh, because it happened 300 years ago, this is how it impacted society and the way of life and their mindset and the values, and therefore we could see it in their behavior. Now this is how it’s showing up.

So seeing these parallels, I feel like this is something that is very easy for me to see, to pick up. It’s not that easy for others.

00:18:47

Laura: Can you talk a little bit about your company and your work so we can also understand the next steps of your story?

Alexandra: You want me to talk about what they do right now, or?

Laura: Yeah. And this AIESEC—can you explain what they do and what was your role and what is your role right now and why you ended up having so many opportunities to live in other countries?

Alexandra: So I think in the organization that I used to work for—

Laura: Okay.

Alexandra: —their goal is to develop humankind’s potential.

Laura: Okay.

Alexandra: By focusing on working with youth and developing their leadership skills through events, different projects, activities, but also through international exchange.

So the idea is that if you see that reality could be different, if you have firsthand experience living, working abroad, relating to people from another culture and country, you could better understand and connect to them. So there would be more empathy.

Laura: So, and that’s how you ended up going to India.

Alexandra: Yes. So with the same organization, I went to India. I went to Bahrain. But then the biggest milestone was when I moved to Nicaragua. I had a one-year contract. Basically, my role was to open up a new office in Nicaragua and Honduras.

Laura: Mm-hmm.

Alexandra: Of that organization. And that’s obviously the experience that changed the rest of my story because I’m still in Latin America, looking forward to my next chapter, but more than 12 years now in Latin America, all because of that step.

So, to be honest with you, I was really looking for something very unique and different from all the experience that I had already had. So I wanted to move to a country that would be the opposite of my culture. That was my first criterion.

And then the second criterion that I had was obviously my professional experience. So I either wanted to be very functional, go somewhere where the organization is already big, it’s stable, so I could focus on just my department and my team, or go somewhere where I have the chance to do everything at the same time. And Nicaragua was that second option.

00:21:13

Laura: But you’re not working with this company anymore.

Alexandra: No, no, no, no.

Laura: Okay. So once you moved to Colombia, it was another chapter, professionally speaking.

Alexandra: Yes. So I think it was a long time ago. It finished with that first year in Nicaragua. I went back to Russia to finish my bachelor’s, and then life happened. I had a long-distance relationship. Then I had to go back to Nicaragua.

So when I went back, obviously my context was different because I was going to be with somebody. So it was not just my professional goals. And also, I had to look for a job in a local market. That was absolutely terrifying for me. I couldn’t imagine myself working for a local company. It was local. I was like, “I don’t—I don’t see myself there. That’s not for me.”

Honestly, Nicaragua was such a culture shock. For so long, I felt, you know, if you compare Nicaragua and Russia, it’s just black and white. It’s as far away from each other as you could possibly imagine it, in everything: lifestyle and values and how people build trust, how they communicate with each other, how they build relationships.

And obviously, nobody gives you an onboarding guide when you land in a new country.

Laura: Yeah, unfortunately.

Alexandra: Unfortunately. So you just have to figure it out on your own. Nobody tells you, “Oh, when people give you this answer, it doesn’t really mean that. What they really want to tell you is that you need to wait, or it’s a no.”

There is a huge part of that cultural adaptation journey that you have to navigate through, many times by yourself. That was part of my experience there.

00:23:01

Laura: So since you mentioned Nicaragua, and I remember during our call we talked about that, can you tell me more about this cultural aspect and why it was so shocking for you and why it was so hard to adapt to it?

Alexandra: We need a couple of hours to have that conversation.

Why it was so shocking, again, because it’s so opposite and nobody explains it to you, right? So you show up from your cultural perspective, from your cultural lens. And just what we discussed a couple of minutes ago, you judge, and your judgment might not be the truth. Many times, it’s not the truth.

Laura: Yeah.

Alexandra: So that’s not helping. And then you use that information to make decisions and how you act, what you do with your life, etc.

So the biggest part of that cultural difference that I found with Nicaragua was communication. In everything: professional, personal, just in social settings, when you meet somebody at the supermarket, you know, all this small talk. That’s definitely not the skill that I was born with. It’s not a thing in Russia, okay? I had to learn it the hard way.

All these conversations about the weather, when I’m like, “I don’t understand why I’m wasting my time. I don’t understand what’s the value of it.” And it also feels that you’re betraying yourself, you’re betraying who you are, you’re betraying your values.

Laura: But you can’t fit in that box, right?

Alexandra: Exactly, to fit in that box. And also, I feel like Nicaragua is such a small country and also very small mentality. Like, there is not much—conservative, religious, small, everything that comes with it. The most important thing in your life is what people are going to say about you. Very different from my values and how I see my life and my value and, you know, how I want to live my life.

So it was very conflicting for me to be able to finally find my authentic voice within that context that still felt like myself but would be successful in navigating that reality.

Laura: It’s tricky.

Alexandra: It is very tricky. Yes. And it’s actually the work that I do now as a coach and as a mentor. I help others who navigate these identity shifts to do it faster and not to take so much time and go through so much trauma when you’re doing it by yourself.

You know, I help navigate that transition and make it as short as possible and give concrete insights and steps of what you do to create—I call it, like, create your new personality.

You know, I like to joke that I have my Russian personality and then I have my inner Latina. And both of them are me. Now, it took me some time, right? But the idea is that you could still feel authentically you, and you could control the volume. You could either turn it up or turn it down depending on the situation and your goals.

And when you are able to do that, I think this is a criterion. This is the sign that your cultural adaptation is successful.

00:26:49

Laura: Love that. And I really like what you said about the small talk and the fact that, “I’m wasting my time. This is not who I am.” But at the same time, you kind of try to do it because you want to fit. You don’t want to be rude. You don’t want to be read as rude because you’re not being rude, but you’re going to be read as rude.

So it’s complicated to navigate that and respect yourself. It’s like when I go to Brazil, one of my pet peeves is when I take an Uber and the driver just wants to talk and talk and talk, and I’m like, “I just want to stay in silence.”

But it’s so common, and that’s something that I’m not—I’m going to say I’m not used to it because when I moved here, I’d never used Uber or taxis in Brazil. So it’s a reality that I started to live in in the States.

And then when I go back from the airport, or if I’m in a big city and I need that service, I’m not used to that. I was not used to that before. So, yeah, you don’t want to be disrespectful, but at the same time, like, I don’t want to talk. I don’t want to talk.

And just by saying this to you, I’m already having a feeling, a self-judgment, like people are going to think you are rude just by saying that.

00:28:32

Alexandra: I think the key there is really asking yourself: is it worth it?

You know, something that I always love sharing about my own story, because I feel like that’s a great example of that cultural adaptation and when you could be still yourself but then show up differently depending on the situation.

So let’s say my original setting, right? If you need something done, first of all, you have a deadline. Everybody is understanding their own role and responsibility. If we’re talking about a business environment, we just make it happen because we have a deadline, and that’s it. End of the conversation.

Okay, and then if you have any questions, you could just follow up by chat, by email, and that’s it. And also be respectful by being direct. So if I’m chatting you, I’m not going to be like, “Laura, how are you? Just a kind reminder, I sent you an email yesterday. Today is a deadline.”

No. I’m going to say, “Laura, today’s the deadline. Where is the report?” Right?

So I cannot use the same mindset here because it’s not going to be successful at all. I’ve been there, right?

So instead of feeling that frustration that, “Oh my God, I cannot believe why people are like that. It doesn’t make any sense to me. This is so frustrating. I keep sending emails, I get ignored, and then I get feedback that I’m too rude and too Russian and too direct, and nobody wants to work with me anymore.”

It’s going through all that drama. Having that understanding of cultural context and understanding, okay, what’s my goal? My goal is to make this project happen. So, what is the best tool that I could use here to get to my goal?

And the best tool is not to stay at home. The best tool is to go to the office.

So even when I had a corporate role that was very flexible, I really didn’t have to go to the office. I could have just worked remotely. I made sure every Friday I would go to the office, and I had a face-to-face agenda of just cafecitos, coffee time with every single partner and stakeholder. I would start writing to them on Monday.

Laura: Oh, wow.

Alexandra: I would have the full agenda. I didn’t have any business meetings. I would have the full agenda of me being in the office just drinking coffee, one after another, with different people.

I would dress up. I would put my red lips on, and I would go to these coffees, and we would talk about life. Nobody talks about work. Talk about weather, family, girlfriends, weekends, vacations, you name it.

And after every coffee, because here I understand how things work, it’s a personal relationship. The motivation is never, “Oh, I’m being paid for it, so I need to do this work.” No. “I like you. Therefore, I decide to help you by doing my work.”

So after every coffee, already taking the elevator up to our office, I would go like, “I absolutely forgot. I would be so thankful if you could help me out. I sent you the report. Only you could approve it. Only you could help me out.” You know, I would ask for help as a very last thing.

And then obviously the answer would be, “Alexandra, of course. Of course I would help you. Of course you could count on me.”

I’m like, “You are my angel. Thank you so much.”

And I understand that this is the strategy, my business strategy, to make things work.

So I could just stay at home and send thousands of follow-up emails and probably get fired because I’m going to be ignored and people are not going to like me.

Or I could understand the rules—

Laura: The game.

Alexandra: I could play the game, but not feel like I’m betraying myself or feeling frustrated. Still feel it’s my choice that I’m consciously making because this is the strategy that’s going to help me to get to my goal.

And I feel like this is the secret, when you get to that point when you understand the context and you know what the rules of the game are and you could play that game.

00:32:35

Laura: Kind of like you said before, that you have your Latina personality and you have your Russian personality. It’s a different and fun way to frame it and to look at it because you’re not going to change a whole culture, a whole country. So you just have to play by the rules.

Anyway, I want to talk about your relationship. You met your husband back in Nicaragua. So I guess it was not that bad, your time in Nicaragua, right?

Alexandra: I always joke that he is the exception to the rule and proves the rule. So he’s originally from Nicaragua.

Laura: Yes. Okay. And you mentioned that you moved back to Russia. Now I understand why you were in a long-distance relationship, because you got back to finish your studies and got back to Nicaragua.

So, how did you realize he was the one? Especially considering that question. Especially considering you’re having this, quote unquote, negative experience in Nicaragua.

00:34:14

Alexandra: I think ultimately it’s a choice. I don’t think people just realize, at least not me, angels are singing and, you know, this is the one for you forever and ever.

But I felt like ultimately we were able to communicate. I feel like when we talk about intercultural relationships, just the fact of that context already makes them stronger.

So if you’re still together, there’s a second date, you know, it means a lot more than comparing that to a relationship when two people are from the same culture or country, just because it requires so much awareness and communication, because you cannot assume things.

Laura: Yeah.

Alexandra: You know, basic things like how do you show up when we go out together, or when we meet family, or the gender roles, or any type of roles for that matter. There are no obvious things.

Every single detail, you need to ask: why? How is that for you? Is it like that for you in terms of what you want in your life, or is it just the cultural aspect of it? Right?

And then asking the question: how do we want it together in our partnership, in our relationship, so we could create that new cultural reality that’s not—it’s not Russian, but it’s something unique. It’s a blend of many things.

00:35:27

Laura: Yeah, I love that. And I could say that perhaps, of course, you cannot compare relationships. That’s not like a guidebook or anything like that. But by listening to you, and if you are following that, it’s like you said, you have more chances to be successful because since the beginning, you are having serious conversations and asking the reason behind, not just taking a yes or a no for an answer without, like, okay, investigating and really getting to know—I guess you really get to know the person that is next to you because you have to double, triple check.

Alexandra: Yeah, you can’t assume.

Laura: Yeah, it’s like you said, you cannot assume. How did you guys plan your lives after that? You were in this long-distance relationship. How did you take the next steps and decide to move to Colombia?

00:36:38

Alexandra: So originally, the idea was to move together to a different country in Latin America since the beginning. Then some family things happened, and then I made a choice to go back to Nicaragua.

But our goal was always to find the opportunity to move somewhere else. We moved to Colombia with my previous employer. That was a perfect move for us. I got a promotion. The company I used to work for was growing a lot. Colombia was projected to be a Latin American hub in terms of business opportunities and growth, and I got that job offer.

00:37:15

Laura: How was the adaptation to Colombia compared to Nicaragua? I know it was better. Yeah, it was easier. I know that from my research. What do you think made it easier? Because you had been to Nicaragua, or what made it easier for you?

Alexandra: Of course. I mean, I’m going to generalize here, but ultimately it’s Latin America, right?

So obviously, you know, there are differences within each country and from one country to another, but if you compare it to Slavic culture, then it’s Latin America. There are certain similarities that you know.

So that was one side of it. Nicaragua was a very harsh onboarding for me to the region. And also because Nicaragua is so small, and then when we moved to Colombia, Colombia is bigger as a country, but also Bogotá is a big city. It’s metropolitan. So just because of that, it’s much more open-minded compared to the rest of the country, let’s say.

But also, after Nicaragua, I already spoke the language. I already understood the culture. I already understood all this: what you say, what you mean, how you need to show up, the small talk, you never say no, you avoid conflict, all these, you know, classical things. It was very easy to just copy and paste here.

And I’m making it easy. Of course, it’s not like that. But then it was just a question of understanding local accents, local cultural nuances. But it was so much easier, and also because people are more open-minded.

So something that I experienced in Colombia that I never experienced in Nicaragua before, people would be mindful that I’m not from here, and they would either ask genuine questions because they’re very curious to understand my culture, not with the expectation that I need to be a Colombian woman.

And also when there was, for example, a conversation, we would speak Spanish and then somebody would say a slang word, somebody from the group would always be like, “Oh, Alexandra, this is very Bogotá, this is very Cali, very Colombia. Do you understand what it means?”

I never had that experience in Nicaragua. And I feel like that was a huge part of that transition for me.

00:39:37

Laura: We didn’t talk about your experience in India, and I’m very curious to know how that was for you, and kind of intrigued by the fact that Nicaragua was very shocking for you. How was India?

Alexandra: India was also shocking, but I didn’t spend as much time there. And it was more like an adventure for me.

Laura: Okay.

Alexandra: So I think my motivation for India was also, like, I wanted something very different from what I was used to.

But also, when I moved to India, I had people that I already knew. That was part of the reason why I decided to go to India because I thought, okay, I’ll be by myself, so at least I could count on these people. You know, I feel more comfortable. I really trust them, and I felt welcomed by them and their family, and that was also a big part of my experience there.

So India was an adventure, and I got there with these open eyes. Everything was so weird and so different, like from just the visual experience to the sound and the level of noise around you every single moment, the flavors, everything. But I was very driven and hungry to learn about it.

00:40:40

Laura: Okay. So regarding your work, I just wanted to understand. You moved to Colombia with your previous company. Right now, are you working for a company or are you working for yourself?

Alexandra: I work for myself, so I have a private practice of coaching and organizational consulting.

Laura: How did you decide to do that, and how did you feel comfortable and confident enough to just pursue the entrepreneurial journey? Because it’s not easy. It’s not easy. We all know that.

00:41:20

Alexandra: I feel like coaching and leadership development have been something that I was good at, and I actually got to understand it because of the feedback I was receiving from others.

Because I feel like that’s a classical story. When something is easy and natural for you, you assume it’s easy and natural for everybody else. You don’t see the value in it.

You’re like, “Obviously, you can do a 20-page report in Excel. I do it in five minutes.” Where, for somebody, it’s so easy that they don’t see it as a big deal.

So I had that experience, but then I started noticing a trend in terms of feedback that I would receive from others. People wanted to be on my team, not because they really liked the department I was working in, but because they wanted to be with me and they loved my team dynamics and my approach.

And, you know, I’m like, that’s very interesting. I should notice more of these things.

And then, after AIESEC, I started to work with a coach, not as a client, but as his right hand. And that was also something that really opened my eyes to that industry and that business.

And I would look up to him, and I would think, “Oh my God, when I grow up and become this strong, independent woman, you know, what should I do in my life to be like this?”

I really loved what he did and the impact that I would see from his work. That really motivated me, and this is how I started pursuing it. I got education. I got my postgraduate degree in coaching, several certifications and accreditations, and now I am this independent, strong woman who does it herself.

00:42:59

Laura: I actually had a question related to that. You said that other people recognized your ability to work with individuals before you fully recognized it yourself. But why do you think it was difficult for you to notice that, and also, how do you use your own experience to help your clients?

Alexandra: I think that’s a very classical situation, and I see it a lot with my teams when I was working in corporate and with my clients.

So when I used to work in corporate, I would be in charge of leadership development, training, organizational development, HR. So I was still focusing on the same thing, just within a different role, from a different perspective.

So I see it a lot when you need that external feedback to help you see your blind spots, to really help you see your strengths, because many times, because it’s so easy and so natural for you, you assume it’s not valuable.

Obviously, everybody could go and just deliver an eight-hour training. You can just go and click on slides and, you know, facilitate it. What’s the big deal? But people are willing to pay money for that, right?

So seeing these opportunities for yourself, I feel like that’s a huge role of a coach or mentor in any type of setting. You know, you need somebody external to help you recognize what you’re good at and then find a way to use it.

00:44:52

Laura: I agree. That’s why it’s so easy to compliment our friends and see their potential, right? Because we are looking from the outside, and like, how are you not seeing this? It’s so obvious that you’re good at this.

Since we’re talking about this, and in your experience you’ve been living in a lot of countries and working with different cultures, what have you learned about the ways women are taught to make themselves smaller? And how can a woman become more visible without feeling that she has to become louder or perhaps less like herself, like we were talking about before?

00:45:26

Alexandra: That’s a loaded question. Actually, it’s a big part of my work and something that I absolutely enjoy and love: supporting women, and especially in male-dominated environments, finding their authentic ways and, you know, showing up the way they want to.

And I want to share a trend that I notice when I work with women in that same coaching. I’m generalizing here, but many times the very first thing that I hear them say is, “Oh, this is a list of my areas of opportunity. These are the things that I need to work on. I’ve already reflected on this. I got feedback. You know, I know exactly where I need to be better.”

And then the second thing they usually tell me is, “How do I show up so that I’m not perceived as loud, too much, drama queen, etc.?”

I never heard this phrase from a male client.

Laura: I’m sure.

Alexandra: Typically, men don’t worry about being perceived as somebody loud or too much or a drama queen or king, you know.

Laura: Yeah.

Alexandra: And so I see this huge gap that, first of all, our generation, obviously we’re doing much better than the previous generation before us, but still we really have very few examples of successful women that you could relate to, right?

Usually, you look around and the management positions are all taken by men, and that’s a normal visual. Like, we don’t really question it because that’s so normal in our lives.

I feel like that’s also a very cultural thing. The gender difference is there, but the level of it, how bad it is, is also dependent on culture.

For example, something that I noticed in Latin America, the lower you go in terms of social class—it’s very obvious in Latin America and it’s impacting every single part of your life—the more you see the difference that women are afraid, or not afraid, they’re not taught to have their own voice.

Simple things, for some, like say no to somebody physically. I’ve seen women not being able to do that.

Laura: Oh, I know that so well.

Alexandra: For me, that was a culture shock because never in my life before had I seen anything like that. I couldn’t have imagined it. If somebody told me that this is the case, I would say you’re just, you know, you’re coming up with nonsense.

But this is a reality. People live like that. It’s very cultural.

It’s not—when you ask them, “What do you want?” It’s their silence because nobody has ever asked them this question.

Laura: Yeah.

Alexandra: Because what I want is not important. What my family needs or what my man wants, but not what I want.

So working with women like that and just meeting them where they are, I think this is the key. You know, not bringing your own judgment or your perspective on how things should be in the modern world, but really seeing where they are, what’s important for them, what’s their intention, helping them step by step get to that next level, take that next step, and help them also recognize the amount of effort and work they’ve done.

I feel like that’s also very trending for women. We have these high goals and ambitions, and we achieve them, and then we don’t celebrate it because our focus is on that list of, you know, the rest of the things that I could do better.

So a big part of my work in coaching is helping women really see the facts. Not only that list of things that I could do better, but also what you’re good at, what are your strengths, what could you use, what you could take advantage of, recognize and celebrate that, and then build your next steps on that.

00:49:52

Laura: Before we keep going with these deep questions, because I love your POV, especially as a coach, I want to ask you something that we briefly talked about in our call, because we both saw these videos on social media comparing Eastern European women to Latin American women.

There’s this girl, Christina. I always forget her last name.

Alexandra: Yeah, me too. But I know who you’re talking about. Yeah.

Laura: Yeah. She’s huge on social media. She’s from a country that I also don’t remember the name of, but she’s Eastern European. And she did some videos comparing. She was saying that Eastern European women and Latin American women are very similar.

But she’s living in Canada, and you are an Eastern European woman, Russian, and you’ve lived in Latin America. So what can you say about that? Do you think it’s true that we are similar, or are we not similar at all?

00:51:01

Alexandra: I think in some ways it depends on who we compare it to.

Laura: Uh-huh.

Alexandra: Right? So if you’re comparing Slavic women with Latinas and then Chinese women, then probably, yes, we have more similarities, I think.

Laura: Okay.

Alexandra: Yeah. I think for Slavic women, something that I really noticed that’s very obvious when you live abroad is our idea of beauty standards that are very high and unachievable.

You would never leave the house without looking good. You know, that’s a thing that’s very common in the U.S., for example, when you just go to a supermarket in pajamas. I could not imagine that happening anywhere in Eastern Europe.

So that idea of being presentable and how you should look, I mean, you know, certain standards that you always need to rise up to, I think that’s something very deep in our culture.

00:52:14

Laura: I also like the joke about Americans. I’ve seen a lot of videos about French people judging American people by going out in activewear, like gym clothes.

I don’t know which side I’m on right now because sometimes it’s so good not having to worry about that. But I can see both sides, you know.

Alexandra: Do you see? This is a successful cultural adaptation. You could see both sides, and you could choose for yourself how you feel today.

Laura: Exactly. Oh, I love that takeaway. I love it. I love it.

Since we’re talking about this cultural adaptation, we talked a lot about this. And I guess a lot of people feel lost. They feel they are not themselves in another culture. They feel like they were maybe happier in their countries, and sometimes that’s true, sometimes it’s just an idea from the past. You know, it can be a lot of things.

How can people continue to grow when they live abroad without losing themselves along the way? How can you set yourself up for success when you live abroad in terms of cultural integration?

00:53:27

Alexandra: I’ll also tell you something. I feel like many people, when they move abroad, they really don’t have that clarity of what it takes to do that.

So let’s say I’m really successful where I am right now. Obviously, I have my life, my routine built. I have my social circle. And there are so many things that I don’t think about that are simple and obvious.

I know how to book a medical appointment. I know where to go to buy my favorite bread. If something happens, I know the number of a plumber—

Laura: Plumber.

Alexandra: —to call, right? There are things that are just part of my reality, but I don’t recognize them.

When you move abroad, something very important that many people just miss is that you cannot expect the same level of productivity and efficiency from yourself because it’s not possible.

The amount of effort and attention and mental load that it takes to do simple things in the new country.

Oh my God. Okay, it’s 10:00 a.m. You still have the rest of the day, but you are done. You feel exhausted because when you woke up, you ran out of coffee. Where do you go? The coffee that you bought, you didn’t like the flavor.

Okay, then you need to go online and open your email. Something is wrong with your internet. So now you either need to chat or call your internet provider and do it in a different language, or wait.

Simple things like that, that in your own country are really just something that you do, take so much from you in a new reality that you’re done for the rest of the day.

Okay, you need to be creative, come up with new ideas for your podcast and marketing strategy to find clients. Not today, right? Just because of that, all your brain energy that was assigned for the whole day, you’ve already used it.

And that’s just a fact. It’s not because you’re weak or you could do better. It’s a part of your new reality that you need to accept.

And once you accept it, then you could figure out, okay, how could I work with it? Could I support myself in that transition? What’s really important right now? What could be left for later? The decisions that you were not making before because you didn’t have to, right?

So I always invite people who are moving abroad to be a bit kinder and more empathetic towards themselves. Just understanding that this is a new reality and they need the effort and attention and focus to be able to first understand it and then navigate it.

00:56:48

Laura: The mental load.

Alexandra: Yeah.

Laura: It’s so true. I remember when I moved here, just finding a great grocery store was so stressful. And I was like, “Are we dumb? We cannot find a grocery store in New York City.”

I’m loving this conversation. This is great, but we have to wrap it up.

So, I want to—yeah, unfortunately. But I want to finish with a question about you. Looking back at your trajectory, since maybe moving from your hometown to St. Petersburg, and then living in other countries, you’ve been to so many places and you’ve lived so many experiences and you overcame so many fears and culture shocks, and look at you right now.

So what decision now appears brave to you, but when you took it, it didn’t feel brave? And what is the part of your story that you feel most proud of?

00:58:10

Alexandra: In terms of pride, definitely my move back to Nicaragua because it took a lot out of me. I didn’t have a positive experience overall in Nicaragua, so it was not a place of my dreams.

And when I was leaving the first year, I thought, “Thank you very much for this experience. I’ve learned so much. You know, happy stay, never see you again. What could possibly happen in my life to come back to this country?”

But, you know, a lot happened.

So when I was moving back, I was very worried that, again, I wouldn’t be able to fit in. I wouldn’t be able to find a job. I didn’t see myself there. It just felt so foreign to me in so many ways.

And really, why I made that decision was because I asked myself the question: what would I regret more?

Going there and trying, because I had that motivation of seeing whether my relationship was something that I wanted to continue in my life or it was not worth it, and then I could move on.

Okay, so what would I regret more: going and trying or deciding right now not to try at all?

And my answer was obvious, and that was my motivation for that move.

But I did feel very brave then. It was really a decision that I made, you know, weighing all the pros and cons and the consequences for myself and my life, and I didn’t take it lightly at all.

00:59:26

Laura: It’s kind of like advice that you’re giving people because that question, “What will I regret more?” is so powerful, and it’s a great strategy to take when you are in this kind of position, like, “I don’t know what to do. I don’t feel—”

Alexandra: I agree.

Laura: “—confident.” Yeah.

Alexandra: Because you will always have fears. Of course, it’s unknown. You don’t know what to expect. It’s a different reality. There’s lots of uncertainty and complexity in that, and things that you cannot predict and you can’t control. So that’s just a given.

From there, okay, are you going to regret staying or are you going to regret moving?

And then you could always move back or move somewhere else. You could make the decisions once you have the information, but you cannot predict the future from where you are right now.

01:00:41

Laura: Well, tell people where they can find you, and I’m going to link everything in the description, and how they can book a session with you.

Alexandra: People could find me on my website and book a session with me. Also, there is all the information about the services and testimonials from my previous clients. Alexandrapopkova.com.

Laura: Thank you so much. Thank you for reaching out. I really, really loved our conversation, and I could stay here for maybe another two hours talking to you.

Alexandra: We should continue that then. Thank you so much for inviting me in. It was a great conversation.

01:01:09

Laura: As I always say, I hope you guys enjoyed this conversation with Alexandra. I had such a great time with her, especially around those topics on cultural differences and how you can adapt. And, yeah, for me it’s just fascinating, you know. Well, that’s why I have a podcast about this theme, right?

If you want to connect with Alexandra, don’t forget to check the links in the description. Maybe you want to schedule a session with her, so please check that out.

And if you want to support us, you can subscribe to our YouTube channel. And you can also follow us on Spotify. You can rate us. You can write a review. You can follow us on social media. You can subscribe to our Substack.

I’m sorry. Yeah, I know this is a lot, and every creator is out there asking you to do the same, but we wouldn’t ask you if it wasn’t important, and it doesn’t cost you anything. So please consider doing that.

If you are a woman living abroad and you have an interesting story to share, your journey, your POV, reach out. That’s what Alexandra did. So maybe you can be the next one here.

My links and my email are always in the description. And other than that, thank you so much for being here. Until next time. Bye